Needlework-Mai Choua Lee-January 29, 2002

MLEE103,Traditional Hmong Needlework,Mai Choua Lee,January 29, 2002,Transcribed by Ben, Brandon, Ryan

ML: Over the past years, for example, this looks like an apron. This is a shade. In the Hmong
version. These needle works are the new ones, the new version. The old ones are too hard to
make. These ones are harder to make because, someone have to cut it up and sew it. Like very
small stitches. I don't know these are hard to make. I don't know how to make these because it's a
lot harder then the other ones. The ones right here is so much easier. What they do now is they're
just so upgraded. They put beads rite here to make them shiny, to make it pretty. That's all it is.
ML:This is clich. I don't know what it's called in English. Some of the old folks still do these. Back in the
old days they would wear it everyday day. Like you know on the rice farm, on the rice field and
stuff like that. They would wear this everyday. Now we don't wear these anymore. These ones
are specially made when someone dies. Then we would give them something like this, for them
to put on just like this. They also use these for different things to.
ML:This is a Hmong hat, actually I think it's more of a Loation hat. A Loation hat or something likes this
because they look something like this. And sometimes they don't. They put needles in there and
sometimes they put pandau in there. And sometimes they don't. And this coin is very sacred.
This is not the real one. But in Laos they would use a real copper coin. It's supposed to protect a
baby or the person that wears it. It's supposed to protect that person anymore. People just use
any kind of coin. I mean any kind of bead.
ML:Most of the older people would the younger people don't know how to do it another thing is
these these are the green Hmong men shirt and for there's are a little bit different then the Hmong
a little bit different the this and it's a lot shorter. And how the pandau for theirs This is theirs a little bit different
there ours and these snail things represent good luck in the family. So that is why we have so much of the
pandau you would see and make a mountain shape but they did not have some thing like that and show
protection. From the energy and that would protect us so that's that. Protection and we and it's all
superstition that Hmong culture has that protect are soul are spirit.
ML:And I heard a long time ago that the race has, along time ago the Chinese. That says they so they were
trying to kill all the people who knew how to write in Hmong. So those women were afraid and they put
those letters in the pandaus. Into the stitches. But as now as we go along years and years, and years.
Nobody can read these. Does anybody have any questions so far. This is the men shirt. The green men
shirt its pronounced za pouo inhomg. And this is for the women. This is like a long scarf thing somebody
have to wrap it up in your head but how somebody got very creative like I said before they made into a
hat. So it's easier to take it off. Otherwise you would have to use a long cloth. And wrap into your head. I'm
no sure what it's a symbol through. That is the white Hmong hat, Another one is this usually I don't know
what this is.
ML:This is the men version. Its called lash and this how they wear it. I think this is right. Like this for men for the
men they usually make pandau right here on the lashi. I don't know to make it more beautiful. But for the
women we don't do it we don'g do it one the lashi. We do it like these. For example, if this was to be
bigger. Then we would put beads or coins in there. And the reason for that is there are wealth people and
they don't have room to put all of there coins so they were hanging then from there pandau. So it won't so
that it won't be last and sometimes they'd do it for the wealth of it but sometimes they do it so that they
do it. I think so I think they do it for the wealth of the because they are so rich and they want to show off so
everybody can see it and now everybody sort of inearperat that into um into a custom were were if you
have one of this then you have beads on it people will think that.

MLEE203,Traditional Hmong Clothing,Mai Choua Lee,January 29, 2002,Transcribed by Amanda and Julia

ML: This is the man's pants and this also is green Hmong because the white Hmong
ones aren't as wide, different. Also, don't make pandau on to the leg parts. This is all the
green Hmong pants.
ML: This thing is called the chaw. This the old version ones, these days you probably
will not find as many Hmong people wearing them anymore because like I said these are
hard to make. These are harder to make then the ones I showed you. These you have to
cut it, and then you have to sew it into like small stitches. So these are hard to make. A
lot of young people, like myself, I don't know how to do these because it takes a lot of
skills and this. Like I said in the old days we don't have shiny fabrics like these, we just
have plain black ones like these and we sewed pandau into it but now we're in this
country. There is a lot of fabric, so you can use any fabric you want to and this person
happened to choose this shiny style. The beads, I guess, they just put it in there to make it
more beautiful and to make it shine too much with the fabric only.
ML: This slushy thing, it's same as guys but we just wear it like this, I'm not sure of
purpose of it is. We just wear like that, if you're wearing a skirt or pants.
ML: Okay here is the money belt thing. I call it the money belt. Umàthese are the
silver French coins. I think at that time the French were in control of Laos. So we still use
their coins. Rich people with money will only have money belts. So back in Laos if you
were not rich, you would not have a money belt. So only rich people have money belts
and they sewed into the pandau. This pandau is kind of easy. When I look at it, it doesn't
look easy cause it is cross-stitched. The other one where you had to cut it and little stitch
those are hard to sew. So this is another one.
ML: I bet this is theànow these are the Hmong white Hmong. White Hmong men
shirts because it's just black. We don't really put pandau into a men's shirt because I
think we take along time to make pandau and men work harder then women back in
Laos. They do very hard labor so that's why they don't usually have them in shirts or
pants but women usually have some, on their, the tummy part.

MLEE303,Learning to Cross-stitch,Mai Choua Lee,January 29, 2002,Transcribed by Nick and Chris

ML: Ok I learned it when I was a kid I learned when I was
about 7 years old. So it took me about 1-2 months to learn
it, the cross-stitches one only not the not the cut one like I
said only the stitches one.
SC: What kind of stitches do you do?
ML: What kind of stitches ok I will show you I just brought
Some samples.
ML: Ok what we do is ok you start that right you go underneath
this hole right here I'm going to go to the next one.
Choose this hole right here I'm going to take it then now
I'm going to this hole right here so it's the hole and then its
always the hole ahead you want to try it. You going to put
your needle in your hole nope the other one right there. Then
you're going to come up on the next hole. Yep right there.
Pull it out. You are doing good. Then you just have to put
your needle in the hole yep that's right but this time your
going to make a turn so you are going to put it right here in
this hole right here so that's how you do it. And then just right there.
Then you put your needle in the hole nope yea that one right
there actually it's that one right there. The next and
then you just pull it out and then you choose that same
hole. No sorry the other hole. The next hole then make it
you could do that to.

MLEE403,Pandau,Mai Choua Lee,January 29, 2002,Transcribed by Cheng, Chris, Shawn

ML: This all of these just started in the camp of Thailand. In Thailand because back then in the
camp we had to make some ways to earn money. So the women started to do Pam Dou.
and this is a different type of Pam Dou. This I don't know how to do these either. So I would think
this is hard. I would think this is really hard to make and women would sit like this would be there
job. They would get up early in the morning just to do needlework and they would go to bed
early, I mean late late at night or sometimes they would even turn on the lamp and do these till
midnight. Then go to bed so this these or these new ones that they started in Thailand so they
made it into animals and trees or sometimes they would do a story cloth like a very big one. Then
they would write the English words underneath it and tell a story and every thing had to be done
by needlework.
SC: Do you make do you still make the clothes in Laos? Do you make them here?
ML: Some people do I think some people do but not many. I would say that out of 100 persons
would make two because we don't have a lot of time and every body is working so usually we
don't have time to so it. Not not everybody would make. It's very hard to find Pandau inherits
canary all of these Pandau are actually sent from Thailand from the camp so nobody really makes
them here. If they were to make its go to me clothes like toward to what there were not not for
mountains. Do you use?
SC: What materials you mend?
ML: When use T.V materials do you need these suffer like of me cross stitch materials regular
Material. For these kinds you can use any kinds of material for these corners mat you like
because in the camp what we learn was that the American people like dull colors. They
don't like bright colors because we so everything we do is so bright like this so we learned that
the American people only like dull colors so we changed everything from bright to very dull like
this. (holding up cloth) It depends on what you like if you would like to make one. For
yourself you can we any color you want but then if you want to sale then you should just follow
everybody else with the dull color the duller color.
ML: The other one I was talking about was the mountain. There right here, this is what I was talking
about. This is to protect the family, for protection we do a lot of things for protection and the nails. I
was talking about is these, these nail um it is to bring you know how the nails are connected. Like if
you look at it closely, you can see that the nails are connected um it connected because for a
reason it there because there are always so connected in the Hmong culture. So that's why they
make these thing. This accounted so it associated with family and there.
SC: Are all of the signs on there original? Like do you people make them up us you go or do you
follow a pattern?
ML: Some people they just make up their own depending on how
creative they are but some people they have to follow patterns. But I can't make up my own.
I'm not creative, I can't do it alone so I always have to follow patterns and follow examples to go
on but some people are very reactive so they make up their own
depending on the person.
SC: Do people sell those?
ML: Let's say if I made one of these I wouldn't sell it. It takes a long long time to do it and the ones
that you would buy at the Hmong New Year are from Thailand. The people that are from Thailand
that is their job is to make Pam Dou for sale and to send it to their relatives here in the US. For
them to send them the money. So if I were to make one I wouldn't sell it because it takes along
time to make one.
SC: How much would one of those things cost?
ML: Let's say if you were to buy an outfit, a Hmong outfit a complete outfit like this I think about
100 to 200 dollars depending on the quality depending on the materials that it is made with. So it
about 100 to 200 dollars but sometimes it doesn't include the skirt. For example, this skirts right
here this skirt may cost a lot by looking at it. I would say that it is 100 to 200 dollars for this skirt. It is
quite expenses because it's a lot of needlework. I'm sure that it takes a long time to do these.
SC: Who started like the needlework?
ML: I'm not sure who started it but I'm as far as I know its been there for a long long long time.
Before I knew it before my grandparent came along. It has always been there, so I don't know
who do it. I don't know who started it must have been. I don't know somebody in the Hmong
Committee. I don't know who it is. I guess it has always been there. We have always done
pandau.
SC: Do clothes cost the same in Laos as they do here if you were to sell them there or buy?
ML: I think it's different. I say I was to go back to Laos the money is different to us. You know if
you had 100 dollars in American money and you go back to there you would get like I don't know
what is the currency. But let's say for a example let's say if I got 100 dollars I go back there I
probably get about 1,000 dollars in Laos. So I mean that is a lot, but in Laos it is a lot cheaper
then if you were to buy in United States. So if I had a choice, I would go back to Laos, and get all
the things I need. It is a lot cheaper, Laos or Thailand, then it would be cheaper then you were to
buy in U.S.
SC: How is Hmong needlework different from your needlework?
ML: I'm not sure. I haven't even looked into American needlework. We do it by hand, everything
is all done by hand. Maybe that's the difference and maybe the designs are very different. For
the Hmong people, each design represents something and for the American people I don't know
if theirs even means anything. I don't know much about the American needlework. So I can't say
on their behalf.

MLEE503,Questions and Answers,Mai Choua Lee,January 29, 2002,Transcribed by Christie, Kayla, Shelbi

ML: There isn't any certain fabric. When you were to chose a fabric, you want a fabric that you
know you will be comfortable in when you wear it. Like I said it varies, and depends on the
person.
SC: What are some of the other designs that you guys put in there?
ML: I brought a list. They have the aide of a fish. I thought I saw this some where. The aide of a fish is a very common one, or the snail, or the dragon, or a rooster. All of these are really common
ones. If you want I could just pass it around, and you could take a look at it.
SC: What do they all represent?
ML: For example, the snail one represents the family growth, and the center of the snail
represents the ancestors . That also represents the wealth and power. Like I said before, they
protect, they help keep the good spirits with the babies. So, maybe that's why s lot of baby
carriers have these triangles on them. It says a diamond represents the alter in the home.
SC: Do you make any clothes for babies, or anything?
ML: Yep, in Laos they do. They make a lot of clothes for babies, especially the hat. There is a
special hat made for little kids. Kids do have a special clothing, and in this book it shows the
clothing. I can just pass the pictures around and you can just look at the pictures. Especially the
hats. The hats are very famous for little kids. Especially for example, if i just had a new baby, my
parents would rush to make my new little baby a hat, because we believe that if you don't have a
hat to cover the baby's head, the spirits will escape their head.
SC: Is there a certain age that the kids have to start learning to make clothing, or do they just start
on their own?
ML: Ok, well depending on the person. I learned it when I was about seven years old. Some
kids don't learn it until they're teenagers. Some learn as early as seven to eight years old. As long
as they know how to eye-hand corrdinate, how to do the cross-stitch. So there is no age, it
depends on the person.
SC: What is the most expensive clothing to make?
ML: I would say, everything is expensive, because everything we have to do it by hand, so it
takes a very long time. So once they made it into a skirt, like this one, it costs a lot. It costs like I
said, two hundred to three hundred dollars, for a skirt. Then an outfit, two hundred to five hundred
dollars, depending on the outfit. So everything is expensive.
SC: Do you guys have like a certain kind of clothes that you make to go to funerals?
ML: You would give this to a person, for example if your parents or grandparents were getting
old. Everybody prepares one of these, and gives it to them when they are still alive. Just for the
protection of it. so this is towards the funeral.
SC: What about weddings, is there anything?
ML: No, weddings are just the regular ones. Like these, you could wear these for weddings, or for
New Years. No, we don't have a special one for weddings.
SC: What takes the longest to make?
ML: I would say the skirt takes the longest to make because like back in the old days, you would
have to pat the hemp, take it down, and use the hemp to do everything. It goes through a lot of
practice and time. I would say the skirt takes the longest process.
SC: Why do you do the needlework?
ML: I think we do it because everyone has to have a tradition, and I think we do it to make it be
ours. Also, because for our own these needlework are also the Hmong language, and they
turned it into its some kind of language that no one knew.